Have you ever witnessed a life completely transformed by the power of prayer and an unwavering faith? Pastor Israel Tavor of Victory Outreach Church joins me to reveal his incredible journey from a tumultuous youth embroiled in drug addiction to becoming a pillar of hope within his community. As we navigate the peaks and valleys of spiritual leadership, Pastor Tavor shares intimate stories of resilience, including the sorrow of personal loss and the joy of healing through adoption, painting a vivid portrait of the spiritual mentorship and the emotional investment needed to guide a flock toward the light.
In our heartfelt exchange, we dissect the complexities of pastoral care, the significance of building deep-rooted relationships, and the defining moments that shape a ministry. The episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on nurturing a congregation that reflects heaven on earth, embracing the diversity of the city, and leading through discipleship. Pastor Tavor’s testimony is a testament to the ministry's role in shaping society and the power of a redemptive purpose that can emerge from the darkest corners of life.
We delve into the soul-stirring topics of sovereignty, the quest for understanding amidst grief, and the liberating force of forgiveness. This episode serves as a beacon for anyone traversing the rough seas of life, offering solace and inspiration. Whether you're grappling with doubts or standing firm in your convictions, join us for a journey that reminds us of the beauty of being part of an extended family in Jesus Christ, united in our pursuit of truth and purpose.
#drugaddiction #Forgiveness #familyloss #cancer #ministry #christianpodcast #Jesus #faith #Hope #motivation #encouragement #power #Freedom
Have you ever witnessed a life completely transformed by the power of prayer and an unwavering faith? Pastor Israel Tavor of Victory Outreach Church joins me to reveal his incredible journey from a tumultuous youth embroiled in drug addiction to becoming a pillar of hope within his community. As we navigate the peaks and valleys of spiritual leadership, Pastor Tavor shares intimate stories of resilience, including the sorrow of personal loss and the joy of healing through adoption, painting a vivid portrait of the spiritual mentorship and the emotional investment needed to guide a flock toward the light.
In our heartfelt exchange, we dissect the complexities of pastoral care, the significance of building deep-rooted relationships, and the defining moments that shape a ministry. The episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on nurturing a congregation that reflects heaven on earth, embracing the diversity of the city, and leading through discipleship. Pastor Tavor’s testimony is a testament to the ministry's role in shaping society and the power of a redemptive purpose that can emerge from the darkest corners of life.
We delve into the soul-stirring topics of sovereignty, the quest for understanding amidst grief, and the liberating force of forgiveness. This episode serves as a beacon for anyone traversing the rough seas of life, offering solace and inspiration. Whether you're grappling with doubts or standing firm in your convictions, join us for a journey that reminds us of the beauty of being part of an extended family in Jesus Christ, united in our pursuit of truth and purpose.
#drugaddiction #Forgiveness #familyloss #cancer #ministry #christianpodcast #Jesus #faith #Hope #motivation #encouragement #power #Freedom
she loses the baby, oh my god. She loses a lot of blood and she's fading in and out. We're calling the doctors and everything, and then she just goes out on me. She starts turning oh you know, purple. Her lips get white and I I could feel we're gone, like I'm holding her. Her life is, yeah, she just folded over. I wanted to scream so bad like don't leave me, don't leave me, please don't leave me welcome to elohim Podcast, a podcast about real life issues from a biblical perspective.
Speaker 2:On this podcast, we don't just want to be entertained. We want to be changed. Listen to the end to hear what God has for your life. Elohim Podcast.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Elohim Podcast, a podcast about real life issues from a biblical perspective. Today I'm honored and I'm privileged because I have Pastor Israel Tavar from Victory Outreach Church. How's it going, man, what you been up?
Speaker 1:to How's everything it's been going so good. Came off of, I would say, one of our bigger weekends, you know, resurrection Sunday weekend, and we've just been all go. Man, it's been great. Family's doing great. Kids are getting big. I have a 16 year old daughter now. Oh, my goodness, we just celebrated her birthday yesterday. And yeah, just loving life, man.
Speaker 3:You're doing some great things. I don't even know how you have the time. You have a bunch of kids. You really took that scripture where it says be fruitful and go multiply, and then you have a pretty big size congregation and you guys do a lot of community, super active and all that stuff. But I'm so excited to have you today, man. It's an absolute honor and a privilege that you took the time, even though we're neighbors up in Buckeye on the way to California.
Speaker 3:But you've been a pastor for quite some time. You know you've been doing the Lord's will. Your husband you've been married for 17 years. It's incredible, but I'm interested in getting to know. You know what God has done in your life, the prayers of a mother that was resilient, that never gave up. And I also met your brother, right, David, yeah, Also doing ministry. So your mother's prayers, or whoever has been praying for you guys, they're coming alive. The prayers are in full effect. But tell me, have you been Christian your whole life? Did you grew up in church? Yeah, Were you always this nice guy that I'm? No, no, I wasn't.
Speaker 1:No matter of fact, I grew up in church. My grandfather started church out in 1985 with my grandma and my parents took over that church in 2000. They became the lead pastors, senior pastors, right there in Big George Modesto. I wasn't always this guy, you know. I had my time away from God, right, and yeah, it wasn't too good. I'm very grateful to be here. I shouldn't be here, wow. You know I should either be locked up or, you know, dead, or, you know, out somewhere messed up still. But thank God for his grace and mercy. You know, even my times of running and times of, I would say, being far from the call of God, he still didn't give up on me and, yeah, I got saved when I was 19 and never looked back.
Speaker 3:How was that encounter Like? Did you meet? How did God reach you? Because I know it's different for a lot of people. Some people say you know they were struggling with an addiction and they said, god, if you're real, can you deliver me from this? Or you know, they were just in the last moment, a terrible season in their life, and they just experienced God's love for the first time. And there's no way that you can deny God is real. How was it for you?
Speaker 1:Well, my dad's church, like you talk about praying. My dad's church, like you talk about praying. My dad's church always prayed for me.
Speaker 3:And I'll go home, try to sneak in. You know my parents, my parents were there praying for me, you know, but I was in a real dark place, you know suicidal. You know very violent. You know drug addicted. You know, and like everything pointed at me. Not your father was a pastor, yeah, yeah, and you, you, you were addicted to drugs at that time. Oh yeah, yeah, really yeah. Well, how did that happen? How did you get into drugs?
Speaker 1:I, I think, when I was 15. I think what I would explain is my heart got broke, man, by God. You know, my, my grandmother, was sick. We prayed, it didn't happen, wow, you know, and she passed away. And it was a really tough season because at that moment it was like one of those things like, if you don't heal my grandma, then I can't believe you're real. Wow, and it threw me for a loop. I got involved in doing a lot of stuff I shouldn't and it was a four-year track. I weighed about 145 pounds. You know, I was messed up, man, man. And my dad never stopped praying for me, never stopped loving on me. My mom always prayed for me.
Speaker 1:Church folk used to always try to reach me, you know, see me and remind me that God loves me. But honestly, my encounter was was different. Yeah, because I knew, you know, growing up in church, since I was a baby, but it wasn't even in a service, it wasn't even in um, I would. It wasn't even in, I would say like an encounter on the streets or anything. It was.
Speaker 1:We're in a house right there in Southside, modesto. It was me and my friend Tony. You know, he's like a big brother to me. Yeah, and I did a lot of work for him. And one day we sat down there and he seen that something was wrong and he kicked everybody out of the room and he said I literally was choking up right there and it was probably going to be one of the bigger paydays for us and I didn't want to do it no more. And my boy told me the truth. He said look, this life ain't for you. God bless that moment. Yeah, he said this life's not for you. Yeah, you know, you got a purpose, you got a future. And he started. It was crazy because a dope dealer ministered to me.
Speaker 3:That's insane yeah.
Speaker 1:And the one thing he told me though it was crazy he says you know, go be like your dad, your dad's a good man. He knew my dad was a pastor and he said here's the phone Call your dad. I called my dad. Three days later I was in Bridgeport, Connecticut, at the UTC, the Urban Training Center, which is a part of our Victor Arch ministry, and I started my journey, you know. So I knew my whole conversion situation was different. It wasn't like a normal person's. You know, God searched me out in my darkest moment, loved on me. You know, someone that wasn't in the right place ministered to me and I was like I can't deny it, you know, I can't deny it Like God loved me, rescued me, searched me out, gave me hope and and honestly I knew he loved me in that moment to have my boy tell me that stuff, it only had to be.
Speaker 3:That's why you are able to connect and you know, impact people that go through that, that go through drug addiction, that go through drug addiction, that go through even drug dealing with tattoos and all that stuff. Like you, you, you embrace those people. Maybe those are people that get overlooked or turned away from other ministries.
Speaker 1:For me, you know, you remember where you come from. But at the same time our vision has expanded. You know, we talk a lot about our city and drug addiction is not just to a culture, it's not just to an area. Drug addiction affects everybody, you know, from Maryville to Scottsdale, to Glendale. It's not just in a specific area, no more.
Speaker 1:And I believe God has set us up for that. You know, because if you were to ask your church or anybody's church, do you guys know anybody who does drugs? Majority of the church will raise their hands because that's a plan of the enemy. So he sets up different people with different missions, and I think he knew us during this time. I believe that we're going to be effective and we have a big heart for everybody. You know, uh, in our church it's not just one group, it's a it's, it's multicultural. You know, not only that, but it it also has different levels of um, different backgrounds, and we we got what's interesting about the church is we got gcu students, yeah, asu students, sitting next to people that used to be from the neighborhood, sitting next to the councilwoman of Glendale, and God has blessed us like that.
Speaker 1:But I like what Pastor Tommy Barnett says. He says reach people nobody wants. God will give you people everybody wants. And if we stay close to the heart of God, you know he's going to bring people in, because the thing that connects us all is purpose. That's so true. We're very big on the purpose that God has created us for and and I love it because it was our mission the last few years is to have our church look like the city, and I think if you were to walk into our church, it does. It doesn't feel different than the city. It's not just isolated. You run into every type of person.
Speaker 3:That's so good, having your church look like the city, not because of sin, like we don't allow society influence the church. The church should influence society. But what we're talking about here is, you know, I literally prayed this the other day before service. You know, we're getting ready, I'm on the guitar and I said in my mind and in my thoughts I was like God, I want our church to look like heaven. And what does that look like? When we go to heaven, there's going to be black people, there's going to be white people, there's going to be Mexicans, there's going to be Asians, there's going to be old, there's going to be young. They're multicultural, multigenerational, from all types of backgrounds the lawyer, the doctor, the drug dealer that used to deal drugs. They all have the same opportunity to inherit the kingdom of heaven. So I was like God and we're getting there. We are a multicultural church as well, family worship center.
Speaker 3:My pastor is John Telfoya and Danielle Tafoya. But I was like God, I want more of this. I want to look around and see Tanger outlets. I want to look around and see. And then there was a pastor said you know, we're reaching the 40 and under Great, you want to reach the young people. But then another pastor said pastor, you want to be broke Because you know like you need the young and then you need the, the wiser, the elders. And I always say like the young people are like the fire, you know, but you need the elders to contain that fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A hundred percent. We believe in being a multi-generational church. You need everybody working together. You know, the way Jesus established the church was that multi-generational and they met every need. You know, and for us I think that's very important because those that went before us, you show them honor. God speaks a lot about honor in the word and we have people that have been with us, you know, since the 80s. We have people that have been with us since the 90s and now we have new families.
Speaker 1:But there's some families in our church where there are four generations in, you know, and and we're not just saving the first generation, but you know, we believe that not only you get saved but your entire family gets saved, and we could stay saved, you know, until Jesus comes back or we go with the Lord. You know, I'm a big believer in that. I believe even for us. My grandpa, you know, got saved in 75 and we all got saved from that and we're now my kids, my just baptized my daughter the other weekend. I know that was beautiful, yeah, and that's fourth generation, you know, in our ministry and it's just amazing to see that God's not just saving one generation but God's saving all generations, and we have some, some older folk in our ministry and it's just amazing to see that God's not just saving one generation, but God's saving all generations.
Speaker 1:And we have some, some older folk in our church and I love them, honor them, respect them. They're a big part of what we're doing, you know. But at the same time too, it's our city's not just young, even though we live in a young area, our city, there's everybody in there, you know. You know, and I think it's a beautiful thing, when you walk into a sanctuary, when I went to preach at your church, I seen there's a lot of young people, a lot of young adults, but there's some older people too, that they have the wisdom, they have the longevity you know they have, you know the passion. Still, they've been doing it for 20 plus years. That says something to somebody that walks in for a year two years.
Speaker 3:That's a lot of respect, you know. Yeah, and I remember the other day somebody that came to visit us. They're like, what made me stay here is because I saw somebody at the door or serving and he was full of tattoos all over the place and I never seen that growing up. I never seen that at church. No, and I just felt like, wow, they really embrace anybody and everybody, you know, and that's what made him stay, because he saw that.
Speaker 3:And then there's a study that says that people will make their decision whether they want to stay at that church or not within the first 15 minutes. Oh, of course, the worship hasn't even finished and the pastor hasn't even preached. So it's so important, so vital, that you create a culture amongst your people and then also, you know, demonstrate the love not just with words, but with actions. We're talking about Easter, you know, a great service and all that stuff, and we're talking about being multicultural and all this. But that's what people see. They see the finished product. Sometimes they don't see the process or they don't see the behind the scenes. They see the glory, but they don't see the behind the scenes. They see the glory but they don't see the fire, even though the glory belongs to god. But you know people don't understand once you grab the microphone. Your life is now under a microscope and we're getting attacked constantly in a spiritual warfare. What are the cons and the pros of you being a pastor and serving all these years and coming from previous generations that pastored as well?
Speaker 1:I think it's for me. I understood the cost, like I was preaching the other day and I told the church how, when you say there's two yeses you have in serving the Lord, your first yes is salvation. Your second yes is to your calling. I was talking about Peter, how, when Jesus called him, he said I'm going to make you fishers of men. But then they had the whole situation where he denies Jesus. Jesus searches him out, finds him Backward. He was doing his fishing, right. But then he had a different message. He didn't say I'm going to make you a fisher of men, he told them. He said do you love me? Yes, do you love me? Yes, feed my sheep, feed my lambs, feed my sheep. But then he had to say yes to the second part, which a lot of people don't like to say yes to. He said when you were young, you dressed yourself, you did things as you wanted to do, but if you follow me, this is what's going to happen. They're going to take you to places you don't want to go. Follow me.
Speaker 1:I think when I got saved, growing up, seeing everything I seen, my yes wasn't just to salvation, but my yes was also to the cost, because there's a cost to it. Right, you know it's not the easiest of things, but it's the most fulfilling thing, and I'd rather do something that's fulfilling than search my entire life and it holds no purpose for me. You know, and and yeah, there are pros and cons to to to doing what we do, but the biggest thing we could hold onto is that we're seeing lives changed. You know, people that were broken are now being put back together, families that didn't look like a possibility of making it. Now they have hope in the future, just to see the son restored to their parents. You know, maybe they may have been on drugs or someone may not have that lifestyle, but they just didn't know Jesus, you know. So I think it's the most rewarding thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does have his trials, you know it does have his tribulations, but that comes with it. You know that comes with it. You know that comes with the cost of pastoring and leading. Not everybody's called to be a leader, not everybody's called to be a pastor, not everybody's called to live under the microscope, as you could say. But when you do accept it and you're called to it, I believe there's a lot of grace and favor towards your life. You're able to hold onto things as far as carry things that you're intended to carry. But then, when the things get too hard, you cast your burdens on him and he's able to see you through. There's moments where it's been hard for me. I'm not going to lie where it's it was tough. You know you hate to see people go. You hate to see. You know you know people.
Speaker 3:How do you guard your heart from that, from the pain or, you know, from not becoming bitter, upset and angry when you invest a lot of time, even treasure, with somebody and then you get attached to them? Sometimes you build bonds, you build relationships, and you're doing it from a pure heart, you're doing it with the best or greatest intention in the world, yeah, and you think they're there and have your back and they love you back, but then they end up leaving abruptly. How do you, how do you guard your heart from not becoming bitter? I?
Speaker 1:I think you have to, for me it's you have to. For me it's you have to put the purpose behind it, like people are going to be people and for me, what I do is I remember why, our why. You know, I think people keeping people as to how, but if you want to understand your why is like, okay, it's for God to do the work, cause it's not nothing we do. Yeah, you know, if they could, if if they could do that to Jesus. I'm levels, levels behind Jesus. I'm not Jesus Christ man and if people are willing to turn their back on him and they've seen it personally, they've seen him do miracles. You look at Judas and everything he's seen and he still sold them out.
Speaker 3:This is crazy. At least Judas got paid for it. Some of us be turning our back and betraying Jesus for free.
Speaker 1:You can't take it personal either. You know like we're vessels that God uses to help people. You know, and if you take it personal, you're going to, you're going to be in for a lot of years ahead of you where you'd be dissatisfied. You'll get hurt and then you won't. You won't have the ability to help people the way you should. You know, does it hurt for the moment? Yes, do you still pray for him? Of course. Do you still love him? Yeah, but at the same time, too, God also works in ways where he may move them on to something that would be effective for them, or you never know. You know, so I learned not to take things personal. You know and understand that we live in a world where people are going to be people.
Speaker 3:But at the same time too, you never know who you're going to reach and they'll stay loyal to you. How do you identify and how you determine being wise about not doing more harm than good when pastoring somebody honestly?
Speaker 1:I. I was talking to somebody about this other day how we could herd people, like you heard. Okay, you know sheep, or you could shepherd them and that's know them individually. Herding a group of people is easier because you give out direction to everybody, but when you shepherd, you know them. You know their strengths, you know the weaknesses, you know everything that they're going through, and the Bible clearly talks about leadership and don't give a novice things that they should not carry. You know, or new converts, and for me, I will know your strength because I worked out with you. You know, if you don't know what someone could carry, it's probably you're not spending enough time with them. You know. So if you were working out together, I'll know, okay, he could push up 205, but anything past that he's going to struggle and I'm going to need to give him attention. But if I don't ever work out with you and you throw that on, I'm expecting you to do it because you're choosing it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people choose weight they're not supposed to carry, you know so it's not. Yeah, the pastor has some responsibility in it, I feel that. But the responsibility is to know the person and what they can do, but as well too, the person has to have a responsibility too on it. When they say I struggled with this last time, maybe if I want to go do more reps, then I should tone it back and go to 185 or 175. I'm not trying to push out my max, because my max I'll do less, but at the same time too, for me, I think that's why relationships are important. I'm not going to give somebody a lot of responsibility that I never seen him put in work or action before.
Speaker 1:I want to know their adaptability. I want to know the pressure they can handle. I want to know can they make quick decisions and right decisions? I want to know do they live a life of wisdom? This is, besides your relationship with God, all that has to be established, for that's foundational. But at the same time too, skills and abilities don't measure up to your adaptability. Adaptability for me is huge, because you could be the smartest guy in the room. You can know everything about the cameras and all that good stuff. But if you can't adapt under pressure, then it's no good man, you know. That's the honest truth. Like you're not going to be cut from the same cloth of leadership, because that's what G. I model a lot of stuff after Jesus style leadership. Yeah, he took the disciples through pressure because he understood what they're going to do. After he left was going to be a lot of pressure. That's right yeah.
Speaker 1:And he didn't. He didn't leave them to be untested. Wow, he walked through the test with them. You got the storm. He led by example. Yeah, he is, there was a storm, he. You got the storm.
Speaker 1:He led by example. Yeah, there was a storm. He understood the capacity, he understood the commitment to the faith and he calmed the storm. But that was one of the tests that they faced. You know, the feeding of the 5,000. That was another test. Can you adapt? You know, okay, what do we have? Oh, they're hungry. What do you have? Yeah, and for me, that those were all tests of maturity, yeah, so if someone's being used out of pocket or they're given stuff that they should not be caring yet, it's usually due to a lack of relationship. That's what it comes down to. That's true. And if you're gonna serve in my house, I would like to know you. That's right. You know, if you were to make this your physical home, you wouldn't just allow random people to serve in your house. There has to be a relationship there, man that's so true.
Speaker 3:Don't just be someone that herds people, but be a pastor that shepherds sheep, oh yeah, and you have to get to know your sheep. Just how the sheep must learn and get to know the voice of his shepherd, the shepherd must also know the weaknesses and the strength of the sheep that he's shepherding. 100%, because I think also what can happen is, I think, that people make decisions a lot of times based off inspiration. You're inspired, but also through desperation. We are lacking teachers, we are lacking musicians. We are like musicians. We're lacking all this.
Speaker 3:Someone comes along, you see their talents, but talent without good character is dangerous and I think sometimes we can also even confuse anointing with talent, with gifting. But I think that we need to be careful. I don't even know why I'm killing myself, but pastors need to be careful on, you know, building that relationship and getting to know the character, because, honestly, I think I'm realizing that you know more than talent. I prefer integrity, honesty, responsible individuals that are also teachable and humble, that don't have a sense of pride, the negative pride. I'd rather work with those people that maybe with somebody that they're very talented but they lack a lot of character. What type of leadership advice have you been able to give other pastors that you know have been instrumental in their walk with Christ?
Speaker 1:Well, to address what you're saying about a void, usually that's when we make mistakes. You know it's smaller. Everybody's serving everywhere and just because there's a vacancy doesn't mean that we have to fill it. You know, god will always raise somebody up, the right people. That's good. You know our job is not to fill the voids. You know our job is to raise up healthy people, you know, and if they're healthy, people that serve the Lord, then automatically God's going to push them towards their giftings and what they're created for.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we get so in a rush to build we don't look at the plans, and maybe the plans that ministry might be six months down the road or a year down the road, but we want it because this church has it, or we want it because this guy is doing it, but we don't have the same kitchens to reproduce those recipes. Wow, come on somebody. Yeah, it's like you're working with a different kitchen. You want that, but you're not going to get that with what you got. So our job is to develop our kitchens, not the recipe. Recipes are the word of God, man, you know our job is to develop the kitchen. Okay, what is our kitchen like? We want that, but we need this. So let's build that so we can have it every day, not just once, every celebration.
Speaker 3:Just once, every celebration that's so good. I told Victor the producer. I told him I don't just want to make movement, I want to make progress. I don't just want to be busy, I want to be effective. Yeah. So how can I be an effective leader today, in the sense of doing what I got to do for the Lord, do what I got to do for ministry, but also not sacrificing my family, not just being here and there? How do I delegate responsibility? How do I entrust my people? And I love what you said right now, that just because there's a void doesn't mean you have to fill it. That is so powerful, that's true. God will provide Jireh, my provider. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, for me. I think a big part of leadership is what we're talking about there God will bring somebody, and not only bring somebody, but God gives us the ability to raise up disciples. I think that's a big topic. That has to be talked about is discipleship, because there's a lot of expectation but not a lot of discipleship. And even like for yourself, you're talking about releasing or empowering. That comes through discipleship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like I was telling one of the young guys the other day, like okay, you got married, you know, you're doing this, you're doing great, you know. But at the same time too, you want to focus on that, which I understand a hundred percent. But at the same time too, to free yourself up is to disciple, you know. So if you're not spending time with people and giving them their heart, you're going to do more fixing than building, because you're not going to meet your expectations, they're not going to, they're not going to know the plan because they don't have your heart. So so you let them do it, but then you have to come back and fix it.
Speaker 1:Imagine you do leadership without always having a fix and you just could build. But that could only happen if you trust the people and the trust comes through discipleship. You know leadership is not I'm. I've been saving, serving the Lord since August 21st of 2003. The leader I am today took all those years, you know. So it's like you expect this guy to walk into the church Knowing all these things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work that way. You got to build them up. You got to be patient. Oh, patience, man. Yeah, you got to be patient with people. You got to give room for them to learn and not always come to their aid in fixing things, and that means you have to allow them to fail.
Speaker 1:Oh, a hundred percent. If not, they're going to have the expectation that you're going to fix everything all the time. So you got to have that room because you have to have teaching points. Jesus worked through teaching points, you know. He knew, he knew everything and he still allowed his disciples to do certain things so he could teach them after. You know, and for us, we have to have that room, you know, to allow people to know, to understand, to feel it personally, and I think that comes through the having the heart of discipleship.
Speaker 1:Leadership is discipleship, there's nothing around it. Wow, leadership is working with somebody, investing in them, praying with them. I thank God because my dad taught me that at a young, young age, when I first got back out of school Bible school he would have me do all the calls, the late night calls going for people, having people over the house. He's like who are you going to have over this week? What do you do? What does your discipleship schedule look like? Wow, discipleship schedule look like wow, discipleship, yeah, not not just normal schedule which you're responsible for, but who you're pouring out in man, and honestly, I keep that to this day. That's why I'm able to have a good marriage. I'm able to be present with my, my kids. Being a dad, I'm able to spend time with the leadership able to to help build an awesome church.
Speaker 1:But the ingredient behind all that is discipleship. You know, you want to move the masses, move, like even for me, like we're talking about how a pastor's responsibility by the same time too it's the leadership's responsibility too, to disciple. It's not just the seniors pastors, as you grow, there's levels to it, you know, and you empower the ministerial staff, you empower the tier leaders, you empower all these other people to have the same heart as you. But what does that stem back to Discipleship. So you're discipling your ministerial staff, you're discipling your leadership group, you're discipling the influencers because you want them to spread the heart of the church or the culture of the church. What are the influencers? The influencers are those that I believe God is raising up, but they're still getting worked on, they're still getting shaped and molded. You know there's some influences in our church where I think that God has given them a voice. It just needs to be carved out a little bit. You know, like you're talking about character, integrity and all that.
Speaker 1:You know when somebody's in a room, they carry something. You know I watch people a lot and I'm like, okay, he's carrying something, I'll go to a restaurant that person's carrying. They walk different. They talk different. Their posture is different. It's a gift that God has given them. Some of us have to work at it, but others God has gifted them in that area to carry that. You know that they're in the room if they're there, and but a lot of those people have to be shaped and that's where discipleship comes. When I go look at a youth ministry or a young adult ministry when I was a youth pastor for a while, I'll look at who's leading the circles. Let me win those ones and if I can work with those ones, I get the six or 10 that are following that Wow.
Speaker 1:And if I could work with those ones? I get the six or ten that are following that wow, you know. So you have to have the ability to understand that, but at the same time, too, you have to have the maturity not to give an influencer who hasn't been molded more power than what they they should have, more influence than what they should have what are the dangers of that?
Speaker 3:what? What can happen if you give a position to an influencer that is still needing to be carved up, that still needs the DNA of the church? What can happen?
Speaker 1:Oh, you poison the waterhole. That's what you do, because you're centering everything around a culture and if they don't have your heart, they could break up the culture. The one thing I learned is you have to guard the chemistry at all costs. And if someone is like this, if you have to guard the chemistry at all costs, and if someone it's like this, if you have a church or you have a ministry and you give somebody enough leeway I'm not talking about I'm talking about opportunity to grow You're going to have all that. But if they're going in different directions than what the church is doing, the house ain't moving together. So this is why the influencers have to have the heart of the church, because the church will be at a standstill. You got to have everybody moving in the right direction. What is that? In our church? What we do is we do culture nights where we yeah, we talk the same language. We talk about the months. This is this month. What we're going to attack, what we're going to accomplish. This is the goals to attack. What we're going to accomplish. This is the goals, this is what we're going to be saying as the verbiage, this is the target, and we address everything on culture night we plan, we do it for four weeks. We have another culture night, do the same thing. Everything's moving according to plan.
Speaker 1:But if no one in the ministry knows the culture and you allow influencers to come in and start moving the church in different directions and it's not the heart or the anointing of what God has created you for, you're not really going to do much because you're going to have to fix things more than build things. And for me, I rather master three to four things and try to master everything, because there's always a church or somebody that's doing something greater than you Like. For our church we don't have a feed, the homeless ministry we don't. Yeah, you know, I would rather partner in the city with somebody that's already winning and send our church over there to help assist with this person has established, than trying to do it all on my own, because if God didn't create, then I could pull the whole vision somewhere else. I love that. You know I'd rather concentrate on the things that are according to us and then we'll assist. You know there's going to be some people in your church that have a heart for certain things. That doesn't mean that you have to push the direction for it. You could partner with another person in the city that's already doing it. They're already established. You don't have to start a 501c3. You don't have to, you know, build a whole ministry around it, because it's going to take away from what God has called you to do. That's good, you know.
Speaker 1:I'd rather partner with other people that are winning, because maybe you started up and it doesn't win. What does that tell you? You know like, hey, we failed at this. Guys, you know, I would rather. Okay, we're going to send them 50 people over here, we're going to send 100 over here. We're going to help back up this community event, whatever we've got to do, and that will bring winning to your team too, because they experienced something good this person has been doing 25 years. Yeah, you want to be a part of a winning team. I don't want to establish something. I don't have to, you know. So we concentrate on a few things in our church and we're like let's get really good at those things and let's become the best that we can. Everything's centered around those few things, and if somebody's in the city that does it better, hey, we'll help you out. Right, you know? Right. So I yeah, too many people try to master everything and then they don't. They don't become the full potential with their creative to do.
Speaker 3:And I love that. You guys, you know that comes from a place of you know, humbleness and understanding your value and not being threatened. Yeah, like you know, I see David all the time. I'm like man, I love seeing you Like you're like a part-time FWC member, but we're just joking around.
Speaker 3:But you know it's just like there's divine partnerships. Yeah, because you know God gives us territories. I see pastors, like you know Kings and they're giving a kingdom. You know Phoenix, tullis and Levine, all for the same purpose To work together simultaneously doing the Lord's will. And if they have that area down and experience, then let's work with them. We're not in a competition, we're on the same team and that's to save souls, make disciples or to bring those who are far from God closer to him. Right, so you've done so many things. You've you've preached, you're a great communicator. You you've been to different places, out of state, in the state. I don't know if you probably other countries as well, other countries, but you know people see the man on fire, the man of God. But has it always been like that? Have you always served God with that tenacity? Or has there ever been a moment in your life where you know your faith was?
Speaker 1:questioned. Oh yeah, well, on this journey we, we're all gonna face things that try to break us. You know the. If you're not, if the enemy's not trying to break you, then I, I would ask, like, okay, the ones the devil desired to break, god used the most. You know he said hey, remember when he told peter a that the enemy wants to sift you. Yeah, yeah, you know the trial and test is coming Be ready yeah.
Speaker 1:And then he said you're going to deny me. But then what I love about Jesus's statement there he says but when you come back, strengthen your brothers, when you go through hell, you're going to come back and be a testimony. You know, yeah, there's moments where you're on your high. When I was in youth ministry, I did it for 10 years I had the privilege of serving on the gang international team that's our youth ministry and young adult team, student ministry team and I got to go to Europe quite a few times, been to, of course, mexico, south America, all throughout the States and, yeah, that was a fun time, man, but was it always that high? No, you have your times where you go through it and and and if you're not going through, for me I'm like man. I thank god for those moments, you know, because they made me better. I thank god for those moments because it really everything I was preaching or teaching I had to absorb and live, live out, out.
Speaker 1:You know you talk about faith, talk about going through it. Everybody wants to talk about being a David and you know killing giants. You know everybody wants to talk about, hey, I'll step out on faith and do this, but there's moments where you're going to be tested on that, whatever you're saying. And I know God has a calling on our lives, so I know the pain is going to be great, you know did you handle the test of?
Speaker 3:you know you were talking to me before we got on set about. You know that hardship that you went through with your wife.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, honestly, that was probably the biggest pivot my life has ever taken. We've been married for a while, you know. We have three beautiful daughtersina isabella, natalia and um. Being a being, uh, being me, I wanted a son, you know, and uh, my wife gets pregnant. You know, she has uh, and not only she pregnant, but then when we go to the doctor, uh, she's carrying twins.
Speaker 1:And I was probably in the the highest season you're talking about being high, high, high as far as you're on the mountaintop. I was on my mountaintop and then something didn't feel right, you know, and we went to the doctor and immediately they wanted to do a bunch of tests. Wow, and you already know, like something's going wrong. Yeah, the last appointment was 25 minutes, this appointment's two hours and they're having us go to specialists. So I started praying.
Speaker 1:During that season there was a lot of healing in our church. God has gifted us with the ability to lay hands on the sick and during that time I seen people with cancer get healed. I seen people with hepatitis C get healed. I'm seeing miracles, man, and when we started feeling a certain type of way, I would pray for my wife, expecting a healing like the ones I was seeing at church and it never happened. And it was probably the hardest test for me. I didn't want to do this no more. You know, that's to be honest, because it felt like I got hurt again. The reason why I stuck I went to the, what I was doing when my grandma passed is because I let's rewind. I I left, I guess, the the will of God because he didn't heal my grandma. I come back. God gives us the gift to lay hands on the sick. I didn't want to lay hands on the sick because that's what drove me away. Yeah, like, why are you going to use me with something I struggle with? You know, like it didn't work for my grandma, so why are you going to use me now for this? Yeah, so I had that to overcome. Then we started seeing healings. I overcame that. God, god gave me courage and gave me, uh, gave me the, the passion for it, passion, yeah. And then when that happened to tiana, tiana and the babies didn't get made, well, it hurt, man, it hurt when she lost them. That was one of the hardest hits that I faced personally. You know, to be honest, I it was hard for me to pray because I was like you're doing all this for everybody else. What about me? You know, you healed this person. What about what? I work for you and I had a hard conversation with God. I, I do every. I give him my life for you. I do this, I do that, I do this, I do that, and I had a whole list. Wow, and it was like God was silent man and it hurt. It really did hurt.
Speaker 1:You know, I stopped preaching for a little while. I was isolating myself, yeah, made some bad decisions. You know, as far as and there's a lot of things in my heart that man, I was just getting further and further away and it got scary, because I love God, was just mad at him. Yeah, but I didn't want to make a mad season become a permanent season. Wow, that's key, right there. Yeah, so I would still pray, even though I didn't feel like he was in the room. I'll still pray.
Speaker 1:When I did, I think I prayed more on my car than I ever had. You know, I saw on his, yeah, and I was driving right back there on 107th and Broadway. I go fishing back there and I remember I had it out. You know, God, let me speak freely and finally, at the end of the prayer, I asked are you even with me? Do you even care? Wow, because I don't feel like doing this no more. Or where are you at? Because I don't feel like doing this no more. Or where are you at? And I remember so clearly that I never felt the peace of God like I felt in that moment where God's presence was so elevated. In that car I started crying. You know, all was broken. It felt like he wrapped his arms around me, man, and in my heart he spoke. He said I never left you, I always been with you and I'll always be with you.
Speaker 1:And that moment really sent me on a different trajectory. I would say I needed him and he was there. Did it hurt? Did I have? Honestly, I think everything happens for a reason, and if the enemy tries to damage us, god could turn anything around. That moment shifted everything for me. I became a better husband, became a better dad, became a better pastor, became a better son, became a better brother, became a better dad, became a better pastor, became a better son, became a better brother.
Speaker 1:But what was inside of me? I think I didn't get to tell you this, but for me there's always a card that we hold on to. It was my card that says if this doesn't work out, this is the reason why and it was always in my back pocket and in that moment where I became vulnerable before God, I had to give up that card. That's powerful. I couldn't use the excuse anymore. It was an excuse. This is why this is why I messed up, or this is why I failed, or this is why I didn't become who I was supposed to become, because of this member, and usually it's dealing with pain, or dealing with something that happened when you're young, or or a disappointment or trauma. Wow, and I had that card say this is why this is your fault.
Speaker 1:And I remember in that car I gave him that card and said okay, god, you could take this. Well, I don't want to hold this anything against you. Like, I have the upper hand. I want you to heal me, I want you to do things. So pain exposes. Pain exposes a lot of things that were in my heart. They expose a lot of things that I may have hid away, thinking that if I never addressed them, then for me I would never have to deal with them. And then, when pain comes to your door, it's like all the doors are blown open and I was able to give that thing to the Lord and I never felt more freedom than I feel today because I gave over that. One last thing you know, god has been good to me, god has seen me through.
Speaker 1:But even after all these years, I still had something and I didn't give it no attention. It's not like I was after a while, it's not like you hold it on purpose, yeah, it's just that you just don't. You learn to block it out, you learn not to deal with it. That's the area I don't go to. And then, when it came out, finally, I think that's when I experienced freedom. You know, we, we, we had, we had twins, and they were gone and did it hurt? Yes, but did they serve a purpose? Absolutely Wow. Even though I never got to meet them, I I feel that they made me a better man.
Speaker 3:You know, they grew my faith you know, but it might be hard to understand, for the world to understand. But you see, you said a keyword, you said it made me a better husband, or keywords it made me a better husband, maybe a better father, it made me a better man. And sometimes we got to look back and say that had to happen. Yeah, it had a purpose. Yeah, my pain was not in vain. That's true. There's purpose behind pain, and pain comes with purpose.
Speaker 3:And it's just incredible how you know God will mold us and change our character. How you know god will mold us and and and change our character is it's not until you know you'll know the juice if it's really an orange or a tangerine once you squeeze it and you see the, the juice. And sometimes it's when life squeezes us and I'm like I'm going to understand that it's so true because then it prepares you for the next thing. There's some things that, because of what I've been through these past couple years, there's some things that, because of what I've been through these past couple of years, there's some things that don't faze me anymore. I'm like that's nothing, that don't do me no harm, you know I'm on this road, but because I've been strengthened through my trials, yeah. And you said another thing, that you even went through another process where you had to do a full on CPR on your wife, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think you also responded differently when that happened, yeah, so we lost our babies, but then, okay, the greatest gift that happened out of that was even after everything happened. That's when we started our whole adoption process for Hezekiah. So we lose our twins. This is God's incredible. You know, we go through that whole situation, and the day we posted on Instagram, I go check the mail because we didn't let nobody know for a few months what we're going through. We're just, we're just going through it and we hit it. Well, I was broken. I'll still show up. Smile on her. I was hurting, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go home, lock myself away, you know did your church, did the people that you shepherd, did they know that you were hurt, Like could they feel it, could they see it?
Speaker 1:Some did the ones we allowed into the conversation, but a lot of them didn't. They knew after the fact, but a lot of them didn't.
Speaker 3:They knew after the fact. What are some things that people can do or say to their pastor that can help them in moments like that? Like, say, I'm somebody that I see my leaders or my pastor going through a hardship, going through a moment. What is something that maybe I can tell them or do that will help them through those moments?
Speaker 1:I think that the best thing that you can do because it wasn't really the words that helped me, it was more knowing I wasn't facing it alone it was the prayers, it was the taking time out of their day to send a text or to send something over. You know, it was the small things, it wasn't even the big things. It was to say I'm thinking about you, you know. You know it was a small things, it wasn't even the big things, wow. It was to say I'm thinking about you. You know, you're in our prayers. That meant the world to me, right, you know, cause, when you're sitting there thinking about everything and you get your phone, it's a scripture, it's a pastor. We love you guys, we're always with you guys. Those things, those things is when I remember yeah, yeah, I remember those. I remember everybody who texted me during that time but that knew and I hold them dear because in my darkness they were still reaching out and for me that meant the world for me. You know, even today someone was texting me.
Speaker 1:He's another pastor in the area and he's like, hey, god, put on my heart to pray for you and your wife and your kids and your church and all that. And I said, bro, I'd take on all the prayers anybody wants to give me. You know, stay up for me. You know, I'll take prayer all day, Right, you know, because if you pray for me, you love me. You know, that's just the truth. If you don't pray for for all, I pray for the church. Yet you know, I, I, if you say my name before god, I'll, you mean more than what you could imagine to me. You know, you're taking me before the lord, my name before god, and I appreciate that a ton. And it was during those moments where I, I, I felt the love of the church. Those that knew not everybody knew. So I couldn't expect that from everybody, but this time you handled it.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, 100. What is it that that occurred? Those that knew Not. Everybody knew, so I couldn't expect that from everybody. But this time you handled it differently. Oh yeah, 100%. What is it that occurred for those that don't know?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so we lose the babies and then the day we posted it, we get a letter for adoption for Hezekiah that's our son, it's confirmed. We go through that whole process. It takes like nine months. We go to court. It it's confirmed. We go through that whole process. It takes like nine months. We go to court. It was online during that time. We pick him up it was March 18th, I believe March 18th. We go to Bakersfield to pick up my son. He's our son, hezekiah Ari Tavor.
Speaker 3:I love his blood and death you know, producer, can you put the picture real quick of his family, just so the people Look at that beautiful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's Kai right there, and Bella, leni and Nati, my beautiful wife, tiana Amazing. So Kai was a blessing to us and God, god, there's other families that were going to court for it and everything. But God blessed us and so I knew his promises were true. But then Tiana gets pregnant again and I'm a little more nervous this time, yeah, you know, cause I'm like it didn't work out good last time. Sure enough, she's. She's further along and we see the signs.
Speaker 1:I'm not talking to God the way I was talking to him before. I'm just I'm praying to like take care of my wife, take care of my wife, take care of my wife, and that was my whole prayer. You know, I, you start understanding sovereignty of God a little different. When you go through hell. You know Wow and um, I remember praying that and then she loses the baby oh, my God, yeah, and she loses a lot of blood and she's fading in and out. We're calling the doctors and everything, and and then she just goes out on me or she starts turning, you know, purple, or lips get white and I I could feel her gone, like I'm holding her, her life is, yeah, she just folded over and I remember I wanted to scream so bad Like don't leave me, don't leave me, please don't leave me. And my daughter, my oldest, was awake during that time. She calls 911. Her mother is there. She's freaking out, you know, and I remember I I got her on the floor, brought her back and it was probably the scariest moment of my life, and not only did we lose our baby, but I almost lost my wife on the same day. That's crazy, you know, and I didn't respond like the way I responded last time.
Speaker 1:Paramedics, they got their Goodyear paramedics and got for them. They got there within three minutes. She was breathing at the time my daughter was giving me instruction over the phone. I lift her legs up, get blood to her head, you know. So she's not without oxygen. You know the blood carries oxygen. So I'm doing everything the doctor or the paramedics are saying on the phone, literally my daughter, my oldest daughter, seeing everything, her mom's right there, israel, help her, please, she comes back, she comes too, yeah. And it's like okay, don't whatever you got to do, fight. You know, whatever you got to do, fight.
Speaker 1:We hear the ambulance coming down the street. They come in, they take her right away. They fill her with fluids. You know she. They had to give her six bags of blood at the hospital. She lost a ton of blood. Man, that's crazy. They kept her in there for a week, yeah.
Speaker 1:But even after all that, her parents went, followed her. I had to get situate. The family, her parents, went with her to the hospital and I remember the first thing I did I went to the room and I thanked God Big difference than when I responded the first time I went to the room, I said thank you God, because you kept my wife. Wow, I'm not, I'm not in in. Yeah, we lost our baby. I'm going to see my baby one day, you know when we get to heaven.
Speaker 1:But I couldn't imagine losing my wife and I remember I was so grateful to the Lord because of that, like he didn't take her, you know. And it was this. It was a moment that showed me and God spoke to me the first time you didn't do too well. The second time you did a lot better, wow. And like I told you, I'll never leave you. I'm always here, I'm always going to be here for you. And I remember I felt the reassurance and even after that, it was probably the most I ever pursued the plan of God. Wow, I've been running like I never ran before. I'm older now I've been serving the Lord for a minute now. I've been pastoring for a long time now and I think these last three years I have been most alive. These last three years I have have run like I never ran before. I have loved like I never loved before, and it comes from the acceptance of God's sovereignty, but as well to the gratefulness.
Speaker 3:I have a question when it comes to God's sovereignty, but I just want to give this quick input. I don't think the settings change, but I think our perspective and our point of view does. We can see things from the level, ground level, or we can see them from the mountaintop, and I think sometimes you said, these past three years I have been the most alive, and I think that also comes from a sense of gratitude. I think gratitude is extremely important. Sometimes we go through certain things so we are reminded of the blessings. Oh yeah, sometimes we're always focused on what we want and we lose touch with what we already have. Yeah, and you you know I can elaborate to what you were talking about with your wife went through a similar season where my wife almost lost her life as well. No, gave birth to my baby girl. I love her hadassah. She's six months. But you know, a couple days later they found that there was some placenta in there or something had happened, and she gets an infection and it almost spreads to her blood. But in that moment I got to realize how much I love my wife, oh yeah, how much she means for me. I tell my wife I could live without my mom, but I don't know if I would be in been able to live without you 100% and when. I always remember this when it comes to gratitude.
Speaker 3:My wife one day, I don't know where we were driving and she said, ezekiel, imagine if tomorrow we only wake up with the things we thank God for. What would we wake up with? Would we wake up with our cars, with our house, but, more importantly, would we still have our children? You know, what would we have? What would we wake up with? And I just put a lot of things into perspective. You know, gratitude has nothing to do with what we have. It has everything to do with our hearts and I think sometimes God will mold us and he will shape us and he will put things into perspective and put things back into its priorities.
Speaker 3:You know, I think it had to happen because, as tough as it may seem, maybe, if you know god didn't take your twins and have them in his presence, maybe hezekiah would have never been adopted. I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot to it. Yeah, maybe a lot of things. You only know what transpired afterwards. Now, sovereignty I think sometimes we don't understand sovereignty. Can you explain what sovereignty is? And also, can you also explain to those people that maybe not understand and say why do bad things happen to good people?
Speaker 1:I was listening to somebody talk about this the other day and he says a comment that really got me thinking. He said there's only one person.
Speaker 3:That's good as jesus, and we hang them on the cross.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and and for us it's like sometimes we feel we're good but we're really not good. You know, it's like if we live in a fallen world, what's there to expect? You know, there's demons and devils. There's if the ones that came from God first Adam and Eve and they still found some way to mess it up. You know, things are just going to happen. That's a part of life, you know. But the thing that we're able to trust into is what Christ did on the cross. You know, is it hard to accept it sometimes? Yes, we had my friend. He just he passed away from cancer. We were able to do his funeral about a month and a half ago. I Sorry about your loss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was a great friend of mine and I remember going to his house and I prayed and fasted and did everything I could. I go, I'm going to go to this man's house and we're going to lay hands and God, you're going to move. I was fired up. Yeah, I get to his house and I'm ready to go, like God about to have a moment right now. You know God's to have a moment right now. You know god's gonna do his work right now and he told me sit down, let's watch the game.
Speaker 1:I'm like your friend told you yeah, sit down, let's watch the game. I'm like, do you want me to pray for you? Or like I have all these moments, yeah. And then he's like I already know what's gonna happen and I was like, okay, are you gonna you going to be okay? He's like, yeah, I'm going to be healed, like okay, so how's it going to happen? He's like I already know I'm going to heaven. Wow, so pretty much, he told me. He's like, while we're here, let's watch the game together. So you don't want me to pray? He's like no, how did you?
Speaker 3:feel in that moment.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you you, everything was shocking for me. Like right, okay, you want me to pray? No, let's just sit and watch the game. I want to spend some time with you, like okay.
Speaker 3:But you know like sometimes we like to give super, uh, spiritual answers like, oh, you know, god's will not, but how did you feel he's accepting it? Right? He's like I'm going to heaven, but you love this. Oh yeah, this friend of yours, you know you guys have bonds and how do you feel, and how do you accept God's will? Like, what did you feel in that moment?
Speaker 1:I'm like if he could look death in his eyes and still be okay because Jesus is walking him through, I go. It took everything out of me, like, okay, he's not afraid. I ought to be afraid, I think in those moments, you know, he asked for two things, not even prayer. He said can someone take care of my wife, one of the women in the church. And he said Israel, don't forget about my kids. So, okay, powerful, yeah, we got you on that. We'll pray, we'll keep them close. We'll pray, we'll keep them close, we'll stay connected. All that he's. All, yeah, he's, I'm going to be healed, though he's, he's a watch, I'm going to be healed and I'm like, I'm still wrapping my mind around it, I.
Speaker 1:And then, so we sat there and watched the game, you know, and the healing prayer is I think I did it more for him too. I was like I thank you for my friend. Even in his last chapter, he's still teaching me something. You know, even in his final days, he still loves me enough to give me wisdom. That's incredible. Yeah, wisdom I wouldn't have got if he would have said, yeah, I prayed and everything went the way it went. He said I accepted it is. Then he just looked at me like, like, like nothing was wrong. He said let's just watch the game. Man, I'm like.
Speaker 1:So I'm sitting here with a man who's content with the will of God, wow, and he's okay with it, because a lot of us, I think we get it mixed up. Where we want to store treasures up here on earth, we, a lot of us, I think we get it mixed up. Where we want to store treasures up here on earth, we want to make more memories, want to do all that. And he's like I accepted it and I accepted what God wants to do. And then he'll tell me too. Even a few people have said can you tell me about heaven? You know, and we'll remind each other in those moments, like that's where we want to go. We fight so hard to stay here on this earth, but in to go, we fight so hard to stay here on this earth, but in all reality, we want to go to heaven. I want to go to heaven. You know it's in his timing, so you accept it. You know like, whatever he wills he's going to do, you know, and, and there's some choices that have to be made in it, by the same time too, it's learning to accept whatever God has.
Speaker 1:The Bible says that if you're in his righteous right hand, he has total control of your life. That's what his righteous right hand means, and if we're in his righteous right hand, whether he's carrying us through a storm, he's carrying us through the valley, he's carrying us through victory, he's carrying us to the mountaintop. As long as we're in God's hands, that's where we desire to be. There was a message I preached a while back, talking about Moses, and I talked about the promise, how we get so infatuated, the promise that we forget about the presence. Wow, and even Moses came to a place where he says, where God tells him this. He said go ahead and go, I'll grant you the promised land because I told your forefathers, but if your presence is not with me?
Speaker 3:But I'm not going to go with you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give you what you're asking, but I'm not going. Wow, and Moses goes. Okay, if you're not there, I don't want to be there. Wow, you know, and for us.
Speaker 3:Isn't that powerful, like it's hard to interrupt you, but like what do you want more? Do you want the promise or do you want my presence? Yeah, and that kind of reminds me a little bit when I was praying to God. I was like God, I want to be at a church, I want to get rooted. I was doing this and doing that and I was doing the right thing the wrong way, like I wasn't submitted Right and I was praying to God like lead me to the right church, lead me to the right pastor. And when I was praying to God, like, lead me to the right church, lead me to the right pastor. And when I was praying, I was visiting here and there and you know these are the few times I don't say I hear God audibly all the time. But this time I heard do you want the platform or do you want my presence? And so I knew where I was designated to be. It's so powerful.
Speaker 1:Like for me, I'd rather be in the presence. That's what Rick's situation was. He's like I want the presence, I don't want the healing. Wow, because the presence there's healing man, whether it's here on earth or in heaven. Great, you know.
Speaker 1:And when I started sitting back, I even told my wife on the way home I go. That was different, you know. Yeah, I literally sat with a man that was not going to be here in a few days and he was good with it. He was content. Yeah, he was good with going with Jesus.
Speaker 1:And I had to ask myself am I good going with Jesus right now or do I? Am I chasing the promise? And I'm like man, my prayers are a little different, you know. My faith grew, you know. But at the same time too, I understand that he has a will, he has a journey and he's going to do what he wants to do with us or without us. You know we're not the main character. I think a lot of times we want to be the main character in God's story and God's like you're not the main character, boss, because if I take you, somebody else can be raised up to do what you thought you were supposed to do. You know, the story doesn't end with you, the story doesn't end with me, the story didn't end with him.
Speaker 3:And it didn't start with us? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So we get so infatuated with the characters because we idolize heroes, not knowing that Jesus is the hero of everything. Wow, you know, we're telling the other person another day about okay, everybody wants to slay giants and it was funny because I was hearing some stuff on it. I like preaching on King David, yeah, but the way this individual said it, he said he said everybody wants to be David. Right, they want to slay a giant, he's like. But you ain't David, he's like you're. You're one of the soldiers that are scared on the side. Everybody wants to be the. We're fascinated with heroes and he was saying he's like there's possibly no way we could be David. He said Jesus, Jesus, that's the representation where, when he steps on the field, defeats the enemy, we're allowed to come on the battlefield because of what Jesus did. You know, and some of us, we want to make ourselves the heroes. We're never the hero of the story. Jesus gets all the glory and it's because of what he does. We can't defeat the enemy by ourselves. It's because of what Jesus did on the cross. That's true, you know, it's nothing that we do, it's everything that the Lord has done and the Lord is doing that we're allowed to be on the battlefield. It's not even our victory. We're able to share in the victory because of what Christ did on the cross. You know, and some of us, we want to make oh yeah, he's the guy. No, no, no, it's not me. You know, it's not nothing I do. It's not even me laying the hands. It's not nothing I do, it's not even me laying the hands. It's us agreeing in faith that God can do what he wills and if he heals you, he heals you. It's not me, it's not our church, it's not the, no, it's Jesus. And if we put that in perspective of what God is doing, a lot of us we wouldn't walk the way we walk, because our confidence is what Christ is doing, not in what we're doing. We wouldn't get bothered, we wouldn't get. You know the competition thing, why? Because it's all gee, it's not even our kingdom, it's the kingdom of God. Wow, you know, it's not our, it's not our land, it's not our people, it's the people of God and just the stewards. Oh, yeah, Like so I was.
Speaker 1:I was telling my wife the, and I told her God gave me a revelation. Yeah, Share it with us. She's like what did God tell you? I go? God told me what I am. She's like what are you? Because we have interesting conversations I go, God told me the greatest I'll ever be will be a basket carrier. And she's like what do you mean? I go, God showed me I'm a basket carrier. She said tell me. So I told her I go, God does the miracle. And we're talking about the fish and the bread. All I do is carry what he'd done to the people that are in need. Wow, it's not me that's multiplying the fish, or me that's multiplying the bread. I just get to carry it from the person who did it to the person who needs it. Wow, you know. And if I could keep that perspective, that's good. Yeah, humility will be, alive in my life.
Speaker 1:A lot of people want their brand or their name on whatever God is doing, and we got to remember that. It's because of God that our churches are growing. It's because of God that God brings us leaders. It's because of Jesus that we lift his name up. People come on in the house. It's not our talents. It's because of Jesus that we lift his name up. People come on in the house. It's not our talent, it's not even our preaching ability. It's none of that. What it is is whoever surrendered to God, surrendered to God. God wants to fill that house, wow.
Speaker 3:May God forgive us if we try to steal his glory in any way, shape or form, which it can be easy, but at the end of the day, like you said in all reality, we've got to get off our high horses. Nobody here in reality is good we can't handle that glory.
Speaker 1:We can't. That's just the honest truth. We can't handle that type of glory, because then it gets to us, you know. So we have to have those moments that keep us in that humility. I have a picture of my office when I was all messed up. So every day I walk yeah, when I was, when I was 19 years old. I have that picture in there and it says this is who I was without Jesus. Then I have a picture of me preaching this is who I am with Jesus. So I'll never forget that young man. Amazing, yeah, I'll never forget that young man, you know. But at the same time too, even the things that we do today is only because of God, you know, and we got to keep that in the forefront you know.
Speaker 3:Do you think that there could be healing without forgiveness or there must be forgiveness in order to receive a healing?
Speaker 1:That's an interesting topic, you know. I think the forgiveness of sins, yes, because the Bible says for his stripes we're healed, you know, and and for for us, I think forgiveness is a big part of that second. Part of the second, yes, you would say, because god will heal us. But then also there's sanctification, where god takes us in the process of changing us and making us holy, you know, um, the miracle is that salvation, you know, when we saved. But then there's healing that does take place, whether it's emotionally, sometimes it's physically, you know, but in order for us to move freely, forgiveness has to be on the priority list of who we are and what we do. Amen, the Bible talks about. You know, how can we ask for forgiveness if we we're not willing to forgive those that we see, those that were around? And forgiveness is a hard thing. But I think forgiveness is usually the first step to freedom. Sometimes it's forgiving somebody else, sometimes even forgiving yourself.
Speaker 1:You know, some people wake up in the morning, look at themselves, consider themselves a failure, and it's hard for them because they can't forgive what they've done in the past, not understanding what the blood of Jesus can do for them. Other people have, and it's it's, by all means it's, it's, it's understandable. They, they don't, they can't forgive somebody because of something that happened. But the Bible talks about how forgiveness. It talks about the yokes and the yokes. There's some stuff that we're carrying that we're never intended to carry, and the devil would love to see us carry those things, because we can never walk to our full potential if all this weight is on us. So Jesus says hey, you know, cast your cares on me. You know, give me that heavyset. You know, come to me, you know, and for us? I think a lot of people experience freedom once they experience forgiveness. And for us, for me, it's like man, I've been forgiven so much I should have a whole different life man.
Speaker 1:So for me to hold a grudge, or for me to hold something against somebody, I got to really evaluate myself. That's right, like okay, I want the verdict for me to be free, but then I want somebody else to pay, you know, and Jesus, like I just took everything you were supposed to get.
Speaker 3:You want the verdict to be light on your life but heavy on someone else's. That's twisted right there and that hypocrisy right there.
Speaker 1:It's hard, but it is true, though, like cause, but it is true though, like cause, some people's pains are different than ours. I can't speak for a lot of other people, but I know this when they do tap into freedom, that their lives change. That's true, like their worship changes, their faith changes, their journey changes. Is it easy to do? By all means? No. Is it necessary? Yes, if you want to pursue what God has for you in its entirety. You know, for me I wanted to live in freedom. So, like I was talking about that card, when I gave card, that card did have the word forgiveness on it too. I had to forgive, you know, and I'm living free today because I learned that in order to experience, I guess, the true measure of forgiveness, I had to deal with that stuff personally, and when I forgave, I knew that God could forgive me.
Speaker 3:Without giving details. What are some things that you had to forgive that God made you free from?
Speaker 1:Well, for me, I think it's like when the whole thing happened with my grandma. It was bad, it was, it was bad, and we went in a whole different direction, and I had, I had to forgive others. I had to forgive myself. I, I, I put a lot of weight on myself that I shouldn't be in a kid. Um, I had to forgive, you know, myself for hurting people and and even ask for further forgiveness. I had to forgive people who hurt me. I had to. You know, whether if I told them or if I just presented it before God, you know, it's just for me personally, it's um, forgiveness is necessary, man, like. I live free today because I learned that, even though I was going to new seasons, I was still checking in bags that were supposed to be the last trip, not the current trip. And god's like I'm waiting on you. Hold on, I got another bag, you know, and we're right there at the baggage claim picking up all our stuff and it's like.
Speaker 1:He's like I told you don't, you don't have to bring nothing. Yeah, that baggage, yeah, we're wait, we're waiting right there. And then you know we have to carry it all without. I have, I have four kids and and a wife who likes to dress nice, yeah, and I'm little, I'm kai can't help me yet. So when all these people bring luggages, I'm carrying, you know, six pieces of luggage and they're carrying the minimal I.
Speaker 1:I know what it is to carry some luggage, but God had to tell me okay, you carry that for them, but then you also carry it for yourself too, emotionally. You carry it to. That bag's been with you since you're eight years old. That bag's been with you since you're 15 years old. That bag's been with you and you have it on this journey and you're not leave it at the next stop. Leave it and watch how much free when I fly and I don't have to take no luggage, I'm free. Oh, my god, that's one of the best feelings in the world, wow. But imagine flying that way emotionally, where you don't have to carry that stuff on your next trip, on your next journey. But the only way you're able to check it in and leave it there is through forgiveness. Wow, you know, I don't have to carry that, no more.
Speaker 1:And then when you go to the studio, you have, you know, I don't have nothing, is there? There's a difference that you, you move freely, you you're. And I think, like I said, the last three years I have been living my life free, like Incredible, like man. I'm telling you I'm different and I wish I would have done this a long time ago, you know. But at the same time too, everything does have its purpose. Wow, and I tell the church you're getting the best version of me. My kids are getting the best dad right now in this season. My wife's getting the best husband in the season. Amen, because I'm not just a husband or a father or a pastor or leader or friend. I'm somebody that's free. You know, because of the freedom that I'm having, I'm a lot better than what I used to be.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think that's the best, uh, the best leadership advice um that you can give is forgiveness. You know, like you were saying, you've been a pastor for more than three years, oh yeah, but you're saying right now I'm living free. So what does that mean? That there are pastors and other leaders, because sometimes we we think that these topics are only meant for the members and for this and that. But there's a whole lot of leaders and there's a whole lot of you know pastors that maybe because of ministry or just life in general, they're carrying some baggage, some luggage, some burden, a yoke over them that they weren't called or meant to carry, and God wants to make them free as well.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent that bitterness. Yeah, Maybe that goat or that sheep or that wolf hurt you, pastor, Maybe you're going through that situation, but God can make you free. God can liberate you and restore your family. God doesn't want you to be a miserable pastor. God doesn't want you to be a pastor that can't live in freedom but feels like this is more of a task and some homework. God has great and mighty things. He has plans to prosper you, not to harm you, to give you a future and to give you some hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Man that is so powerful, any last words, pastor, that you want to give to that person, because I know that this podcast has been a blessing. You know you shared about your life, you shared how God has got you through the pain and the journeys and you dropped so many different, so much knowledge on us in this podcast. But any last words for that person that is listening.
Speaker 1:I think, for as a leader and a pastor and someone that wants to do the calling of God, I would say you know, learn to hear his voice, because his voice has never really for me. I'm learning how to take it step by step, not rushing into something that we can't handle, enjoying the journey as you go, not comparing yourself with other leaders or other pastors or even other ministries, being content in who you are striving for healthiness, health growth, not just numerical growth you will live a lot happier. I'm going to tell you that Living a life of comparison is hard, you know. Living a life where you're, you're paralleling yourself with something that they may have a ton of more resources and a ton of more help, and that doesn't mean that you guys are different, you're just. You know, you're just in two different seasons. You know, when I learned that how to be okay with me and also strive to become a better me, honestly, I, like I've talked about freedom, I I understand that I'm at a pace where God wants me and I rather be at that pace than a forced pace, because a forced pace never ends well, you know, um, I looked to Peter a lot and Jesus dealt with Peter but also understood his pace because he knew what he was going to do in his life. What you're going through right now, god is doing it is going to allow things. Not only allow things, but for us to learn. There's lessons that we learn, but it's at his pace and don't rush into something just because somebody else is doing it. You be good with you. You've been called, you've been chosen. You know you don't have to make something happen to seem like it's some sort of success. Any soul in the kingdom is success If it's getting, if he's getting won over for Jesus. You're doing your job. Keep striving, keep striving for excellence. I'm not saying be comfortable. What I am saying is know you and in that God will honor that when you honor him with the pace that you're at. Not only that, but you're not doing this life alone.
Speaker 1:A lot of times, pastors and leaders, we feel that we're alone in certain seasons. You're not alone. I went through some dark times and even in darkness I experienced light and in that light is restored my hope. It gave me I'm telling you a renewed love and renewed passion. Different prayer, different word. I'm reading the Bible different. I'm enjoying the journey. I'm enjoying my life with Jesus. I'm enjoying my life with my church. Yeah, do we have those ups and downs? Yes, we all do, but I never felt this before, like as far as the enjoyment I'm having because I'm growing with Jesus.
Speaker 1:You may feel like a failure, you may feel like giving up, but today's a day not to bend to those ideas or those emotions, but it's to hold on to faith that if God's called you to it, if God separates you for this moment, no matter what you face in life, god will always see you through. Just got to hold on, have faith, don't compare yourself. Fall in love with Jesus, be patient but strive for excellence. There's a lot to it. We could talk about a ton of stuff, but my encouragement to you today is that you're not alone. You're not alone. I've been on the journey for a minute now. There's other pastors who've been serving Jesus for 50, 60 years and they'll tell you the same thing. You're not alone. Get close to somebody.
Speaker 1:I think the greatest joy I have is I found some good friends in my times. Find yourself a good friend, a true friend. I have a few friends that they're not even in my ministry but they're the closest I'm to because I could be so transparent with them. Sometimes all you need is a good friend, not somebody you have to teach, not somebody you have to teach, not somebody you have to pour into, not somebody you have to disciple, but somebody that will listen to you and give you godly advice, someone that will do life with you. I think my honestly. I know this is probably the ending, but my wife prayed that I find a friend these last two years. That was her prayer for me and I found one of my closest friends and it has done something to me because there's no expectation. It's just two guys wanting to serve God and they speak life into each other. They talk scripture with each other, they talk about their weaknesses and their strengths and, honestly, my greatest joy coming out of this darkness is I came out with a few friends that I know are going to be a part of my life for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:You're not doing it. I'll find somebody and if you're here in the Valley, come meet up with us, come by the church or let me know. We'll go hang out, we'll go do whatever. Why? Because we're doing this journey together. Even though we're, you know, different tribes, we're still the same kingdom, you know, and that's one of the greatest, I think, lies of the enemy is that when you're going through it, he wants to make you go through it, make you think that you're going through it by yourself. You're not by yourself. There's a whole family out here that loves you and we'll do anything for each other to build the kingdom. And, um, thank you, man, thank you for listening. I know this was a minute, but thank you for listening and and if we could share anything, you know, send some messages to Ezekiel or whatever, because I know this, this is going to help out a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Well, pastor, thank you so much for for being transparent, for being open with us, for sharing your time, your knowledge and what God has done with you. It's been an absolute pleasure. It's been an absolute honor. Thank, it's been an absolute honor. Thank you for being here at Elohim Podcast.
Speaker 1:Anytime man Love you, Appreciate you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for watching Elohim Podcast, a podcast about real life issues from a biblical perspective. Today was a blessing. Stay tuned for the upcoming episodes, because I know it's going to bless your life or the life of someone you love. Thank you, elohim Podcast.